State Department Comments on Scientology Ads

U.S. Department of State Daily Press Briefing #14 (27 January 1997)

Briefer: Nicholas Burns

The following portion of the Daily Press Briefing concerns the Church of Scientology in Germany and in particular, a condemnation of the Church's newspaper ads in which the current treatment of Scientologists in Germany is compared to the treatment of Jews in the Nazi era. This portion also includes a brief discussion of the religiosity of Scientology.

QUESTION:
Are the restrictions imposed on the Church of Scientology in Germany going to be the main topic of the Human Rights Report of this year?

MR. BURNS:
The main topic of the Human Rights Report?

QUESTION:
It seems so.

MR. BURNS:
I doubt it. I doubt this is going to be the main topic of our Human Rights Report. Let me remind you, this Thursday, January 30, the State Department will unveil our 1996 Report on Human Rights conditions around the world. That report will cover events in over 120/130 countries, so this issue will be, I would think, certainly not the focus of the report. The report is country-specific. It goes country by country.

There was a leak, obviously, by somebody in the U.S. Government about the contents of this year's report. I think that's most unfortunate. I think it probably hyped the story more than it should be hyped. I don't think it's going to be surprising to see that issue addressed, however, in the report. Let me just say we have noted during 1996 developments in Germany concerning the treatment of the Scientologists, such as the calls by at least one important political group to boycott the film, "Mission Impossible."

We all thought "Mission Impossible" was a pretty good film. It's worth seeing. We would encourage Germans, Americans, Russians to see the film — it's a good film, starring one of our major American actors, Tom Cruise — highly recommended. I know there are some women in my family who might recommend it even more strongly than I do.

There is also another development. There was a resolution by one of the parties in Germany's ruling coalition, urging the government to place the Scientologists under observation by the German security agencies. Fortunately, that resolution was not acted upon by the German Government. In fact, the German Ministry of the Interior issued a report which notes that there is no legal basis and no evidence which would allow the Ministry to place the Scientologists under observation by the German security agencies. We thought that was a positive step by the German Government in response to a resolution by one of the parties in the ruling coalition.

The Scientologists fall under religion in our section of the human rights report. The Scientologists in Germany are being discriminated against merely as a result of their belonging to that organization, not because in our view — not because of any actions that they have taken. There's no question that there have been some unfortunate reactions to the Scientologists by members of the German Government and by members of some of the city and regional administrations in Germany. For four years, the United States has spoken out publicly about its concerns of the treatment of Scientologists by the German Government.

Having said all of that, which is, I hope, a summary of our position on the Scientologists in Germany, I feel compelled to say something else, which we have said before, but it's worth noting; and that is the Scientologists here in the United States and their supporters in Hollywood and elsewhere have unleashed a public relations campaign against the German Government, which is simply wrong-headed. Historically, it will — it's (a) historical, and I think they are guilty of historical amnesia.

I say that with all due respect to them, because they're free to say what they want in our country, but let's — we have to take issue with what they're saying. The Scientologists and their Hollywood supporters are essentially saying — they're literally saying that the Kohl Government's treatment of the Scientologists is analogous to Hitler's treatment of the Jews in the early period of Hitler's rule in 1933 and 1934. Anyone who knows anything about German history would have to say that the Scientologists and their supporters are completely wrong about the facts. It is patently unfair to compare a democratic government, an ally of the United States, to the Nazi regime, when the German Government since the 1950s, since Adenauer, has done more than any of the governments of the Axis powers to educate its population about the evils of Naziism; when we remember in the spring of 1933 — we remember from our history — that the Nazi Government passed a series of laws which essentially stripped people of their basic human rights, and the Nazi Government set up concentration camps, namely Dachau and others, in 1933 and 1934.

The Nazi treatment of the Jews in no way can be compared to what's happening to the Scientologists in Germany today. It is an outrageous historical claim, and frankly, we in the U.S. Government feel a responsibility to defend the German Government from those charges, and we'll continue to do so. We've received a lot of private correspondence from the Church of Scientology on this, from Hollywood moguls about it, and we disagree with them, and we've told them that.

QUESTION:
You know, Nick, the German Government doesn't regard Scientology as a church. In this country, I think after  1993, it wasn't regarded as a church either. Who made this decision, and what are the criteria for recognizing a religion as a church?

MR. BURNS:
Well, Scientology — I don't know if there's an office in the U.S. Government that makes these decisions. I think you might ask the IRS about how it — what tax exempt status it gives to certain organizations, which would confer religious status on the organizations. The Scientologist claim that they have a religion.

What is important to us is that people who belong to a group not be discriminated against because of their association with the group. In this case, as I said before, it appears to us that many of the problems that the Scientologists face in Germany have to do with the fact that they are members of a group; not by the actions they've taken; not by whether or not they've violated Germany's laws or observed them.

But simply because of their association with a group, we come into play here because Americans who are Scientologists have been discriminated against in Germany — notably Chick Correa, a very famous musician, and we have to be concerned by that, and we've noted these concerns regularly.

But I do want to bring some balance to this discussion by saying that the United States Government does not associate itself with some of the claims being made by the Church of Scientology and its supporters about how egregious this treatment has been. There is no pattern of discrimination against the Scientologists that compares even remotely to what happened to the Jews and to others during the Nazi era.

QUESTION:
But does Germany have the right in your mind to decide whether Scientology is a church? And, if they come to a different view than the United States, isn't it likely that they will act differently towards them?

MR. BURNS:
It is absolutely within the right of the German Government to formulate its own laws and to execute those laws — to implement those laws. We as a country for two centuries have had concerns about human and religious rights around the world, and we feel compelled in our Human Rights Report — in fact, we are mandated by Congress in our Human Rights Reports — to speak out against abuses of religious rights and human rights, and that's why we have this series of reports that you'll see issued on Thursday. That's why for four years running, we have noted our concerns about the German Government's treatment of the Scientologists. That is the basis by which the United States Government comments publicly on these issues.

QUESTION:
They view it as a sect, and they don't view it as a religion. They view their experience with sects in the past as having been very damaging to their history, and it has been.

MR. BURNS:
We understand that. Let me just say, we have enormous respect for the German Government, for its current leadership. We are an ally to that country. We have a private discussion with the German Government which is open. I think there are very few surprises in the report in the Washington Post either for our government or for the German Government. There is no crisis in our relationship.

Again, we see positive the fact that the German Ministry of Interior has decided that there is no legal basis to put the Scientologists under legal or security scrutiny, which is a significant step and it does contradict, I think, some of the overblown rhetoric on this issue on the part of the supporters of the Scientologists in the United States.

QUESTION:
There been accounts of former Scientology members all around the world about human rights abuses by Scientology. Did that play any role in preparing that report? Did they look into that allegation?

MR. BURNS:
The United States Government is mandated by the Congress to look into the human rights behavior, or the human rights standards being followed by governments — countries — around the world. We don't put ourselves into the position of analyzing the behavior of religions themselves. There's no aspect of that in our own human rights reports.

We've heard the claims by the detractors of the Scientologists. We're not in a position to comment on those. We can't put ourselves in the position as a government of critiquing various religions. I have noted, I think, some of the concern that we have with the tactics of the Scientologists.

QUESTION:
On the same subject. In these conversations with the German Government over this issue, as you've noted in past years — this has appeared in human rights reports — has the German Government ever protested the State Department's criticism of these Scientologists?

MR. BURNS:
Yes. I believe it's fair to say that the German Government has been troubled by the concerns that we have noted publicly. They don't agree with our characterization of the problem. You've even seen some public statements, I think, out of the Germany — not the government — but some of the political parties this morning to that fact.

We have a respectful dialogue with the German Government. We have to call them as we see them, particularly when it comes to human rights. When we have differences, we note those differences. But that does not mean that there's any fundamental problem in U.S.-German relations. On the contrary. There's no closer relationship that we have with any government around the world. There's no closer relationship or more important that President Clinton has with Chancellor Kohl. We have great respect for Chancellor Kohl and all of his colleagues. We find that our dialogue with them in private is quite constructive — quite constructive.

[…]

QUESTION:
According to Reuters, the U.S. has been told by the German Government through diplomatic channels not to interfere in the issue of Scientology. Do you have anything on that?

MR. BURNS:
I would just refer you, Mr. Lambros, to my previous statement in this briefing, that since American citizens have been on the short end of some of these policies — American citizens who are Scientologists — we feel an obligation to defend American citizens.

As you know, Congress mandates that we speak out about human rights and religious issues around the world. There's no choice for any President or Secretary of State. We are mandated by law to issue these reports and to tell the truth and to call the shots as objectively as we can. These are objective statements made by the United States Government. There's no ill will intended here.

QUESTION:
They asked not to interfere —

MR. BURNS:
I don't know if the German Government has ever used that tone or ever asked us not to interfere. I think they are not happy with the criticism. But then again I think that our relationship can handle this. I think our relationship will go forward and be as strong as it ever was. Anymore on this issue? Can we go on? Sid.

[…]

QUESTION:
I wonder if I could go back to the Scientology thing for just one question. Is there an agreed definition within the State Department on what is a religion and what is a cult?

MR. BURNS:
The State Department has been very careful in its 200-year existence not to try to define that question. But we do note that the Scientologists say that they have a religion, and we do treat them as a religion in our Human Rights Report. But there's nothing that we can do proactively that confers upon the Scientologists the status of a religion in our country. That's not done by the State Department. We do treat them as a religion, because they are a serious established institution, and they say they're a religion.

QUESTION:
In other words, if an organization claims to be a religion, as far as the State Department is concerned, then they are a religion.

MR. BURNS:
With a commonsense definition of that word. If the New York Yankees, if Steinbrenner declares that the Yankees were a religion, we'd probably look askance at that. That's not going to translate very well into German. I'm sorry. If Bayern-Muenchen decided it was going to be a religion, we might look askance at that. But, I mean, let's just call it like it is. The Scientologists are a group of people who say that they belong to a unified religious faith. The big problem, Jim, is that we believe that they essentially face discrimination not by what they do, but because of their association in this group, which we categorize for the purposes of our Human Rights Report as a religion, even though we can't confer that status in any formal way. And that's the major point. Do they face discrimination because of their membership as opposed to what they do inside of Germany or any other country in which the Scientologists are based?