Ok I have a question for all of you out there in the know… is scientology a racist organization? I know from reading biographies and information on L. ron Hubbard that he despised psychiatrists and made hidden derogatory references to asians as "chinklos" in his novels such as battlefield earth. The "chinklos" in his novels seemed to be extremely stereotypical media depictions of asians depicted as studious, enslaved, and submissive towards the psychlo conquerers. Scientology also uses known racist terms such as "WOG" which stands for "worthy oriental gentleman". Another thing that leads me to believe scientology is founded on groundwork of racism is their paramilitary look and the outfits their members wear at rallies. I watched an A&E documentary on Scientology a couple months ago and it showed a rallying of their church and it looked remarkably similar to a NAZI parade. The auditorium they were in even had large streaming banners with columns of young kids dressed in neat pressed shorts, skirts, short sleeved shirts with ties holding large banners with the scientology emblem which looked remarkably like hitler youth. If you don't know your history or have ever seen triumph of the will Adolf Hitler frequently paraded "hitler youth" in rallies to show the future strength of the organization in its children. The whole thing reeked of propaganda and seemed to be a rally to show the power and control the "church" had on its members and society.

in article 3924dbb7.82191985 @news1.tninet.se , Catarina Pamnell at catarina@pamnell.com escribe en 5/19/00 5:33 AM:

On Thu, 18 May 2000 15:16:14 -0400, "M. C. DiPietra" <mdipietra@earthlink.net> wrote:

in article 3924163c.31629225 @news1.tninet.se , Catarina Pamnell at catarina@pamnell.com escribe en 5/18/00 12:42 PM:

On Wed, 17 May 2000 20:11:05 +0100, Dave Bird <dave@xemu.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <39224e18.44694222 @news.tstonramp.com >, eqtrader@020.co.uk writes:

Ok I have a question for all of you out there in the know… is scientology a racist organization? I know from reading biographies and information on L. Ron Hubbard that he despised psychiatrists and made hidden derogatory references to asians as "chinklos" in his novels such as battlefield earth.

Hubbard was born in the 1910s, and reached his forties in the 1950s. If you follow his writings, yes, they are racist about black and chinese people — but not much worse than many other writers of the same generation. I wouldn't sat  Scn is based on racial hate or envy as such, though (because it isn't).

I'd agree with Dave. Just as Hubbard wrote in 1950 that women should exclusively dedicate their lives to taking care of home and family, but today you find many women as Sea Org (Scientology elite layer) executives who abstain from ever having children, Hubbard's several racist remarks are not in any obvious way influencing the way Scientology works now. Check out the cult's promotion — you will find people of various colors and both genders used as show pieces in magazines such as "Source". Some recent Sea Org recruitment ads (in "Highwinds" magazine for example) show non-white people.

Basically they don't give a shit about race, as long as you're willing to worship Hubbard and fork over the money.

Take a closer look at those showpiece photos. Are they credited to an image service?

Not the ones I was thinking of, at least they are shot at Flag. Some are those little "interviews" with named Flag public spouting off how going to Flag was TheBestThingIEverDoneInMyLife. The Sea Org promo was artwork.

I noticed in every Scn publication I saw in the early 90s used stock photos from an image service when they wanted to sustain the illusion of diversity.

I know the ones…

Believe me I was paying attention after a Flag FSM told my mixed-race ass that black people don't spend their money on spiritual things, but material ones; that blacks fixate on matter [talk to hats?].

This was after I had noticed for the previous few years I had to be downtown Clearwater every day for my job, that I could count on one hand the number of black people I'd seen in Sea Org uniforms. Way less than the population would suggest. Oh, the FSM also told me that Flag was used as a retreat by Europeans [who wouldn't be black]. Wish I could ask him now about the millions of South African kids who were taught to read by Scn, and where they'd go for upper-level processing…

Think I should try to express myself more clearly. I certainly don't think that Scn is anti-racism. Since Hubbard's idiocies are "sacred scriptures", any scieno who for whatever reason wants fuel for their racist view could find support there. (Just like that FSM.) So can anti-feminist or anti-gay or ultra right wing people. It's great that there are websites such as http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/  pinpointing these idiocies.

(BTW, has anyone made a website with Hubbard's anti-homosexual rants?)

But I don't see racism in itself as any obvious driving force for the CoS. l could be wrong, I can only talk from personal experience limited to Europe, and my interpretation of their materials.

I agree that it is not a driving force, but it continues as a catalyst for perpetuating racist ideas and mindset, and no one addresses it in the CoS at all; the idea that black people register differently on an e-meter implies a difference that is not cultural {since Latin Americans are heavily recruited at this time — last night at Tampa org there was a 'Presentacion Dianetica — Gratis' on the sign marquis.} but racial [what would Hubbard do with an Afrocuban?]

What I do see as major driving forces are money and power (surprise!). Check out who has money and power in the societies where the CoS operates, and you'll see who they will try to grab hold of. Society not equal = CoS not equal. As for the guys without money who are recruited for staff, I'd even say that money is still the issue. If the CoS are targeting a public of white middle-to-upper class because they think that's where the money and power is, and these people will be more reluctant to buy from non-white sales staff — heck, they are not going to put any non-whites there.

This idea is completely racist; assuming money and power are the domain only of whites? Assuming white people wouldn't make a purchase from a nonwhite?

Disturbing.

If some FSM or reg suddenly becomes successful in getting a non-white group to hand over a lot of money, all hail to him/her. If a non-white still pulls in money to the org, keep him/her. Greed.

I would also guess that quite a bit of the recruitment of new members is through friends and family of those who are already members. If white scientologists only have white friends (and I'd say that a lot of white people in general stay in white circles) that's who they will recruit.

Well, part of it may also be that the structure of Scn, which is very white, may not be as appealing to those who are not.

By this I mean the linear-thought patternsgraphs and charts and grades, all written-culture worship of His Written Words and dominant culture ideas of individual advancement, paying for wisdom with money, some of Hubbard's 1950s leftovers about patriarchal and white superiority, even down to the military heirarchy, etc.

I'm not saying that all nonwhites would feel alienated by these and other aspects of Scn, but there are so many cultural biases within the Scn construct that it is identifiable as such, no matter how non-biased it wants to believe itself to be, and how diverse it tries to pass itself off.

Here in Scandinavia, anyone not north-western european (or from the US, Australia etc. but of north-western european ancestry) risks being discriminated against. Greeks, Italians etc. are "black heads". (Oh, not officially of course, but far too many people still have that attitude) I have seen it up close, was married to a Portuguese for ten years. Against that background, I did not find people in Scn in Sweden and Denmark to be more racist than the surrounding society, maybe even less. There were non-european "black heads" on staff in my org — just saw one (who was my auditor for a while) in a magazine, he's a top FSM in Sweden now. I don't know how they experienced the situation, can only say that I did not hear anyone talk bad about them. They were good scienos — they produced! When my ex-husband moved to Sweden, he was better treated in the org than in society at large.

Thanks, this was an interesting view on racism! So you can have European blacks and noneuro blacks?!

Here in Florida, where there are large Greek and Italian populations, Latin people are mostly considered white and I'm sure those born here would be horrified to know they aren't elsewhere!

I also, being young and a woman, felt less discriminated against in the org than in society.

Anyway, scientologists don't need blacks or asians or jews or women as scape-goats to bolster their own imagined superiority. As their own ads claim, there are over 1 billion SPs in the world… That's plenty of people to hate. They have the extremely nasty elitist mindset in common with other hate groups. No wonder the CoS can appear similar to white supremacists.

yes!

A 'racist' group doesn't necessarily have to be driven by wild-eyed hate to be effective at perpetuating racist ideas; I agree with you that CoS may not have racism as a central theme, but organizations rarely do these days. Racism isn't always so overt.

However, the atmosphere of distrust built on the creation and maintenance of an 'enemy' to sustain an organization, the way Scn does, is almost built to suit a hate group.

Let's put it this way, in my years downtown there I saw all of two black people in a SO uniform. This is not representative of the local populace, which is around 15% black.

--
--- http://maggiecouncil.iuma.com
M.C.DiPietra <mdipietra@earthlink.net>, SP4
"Hell, if you understood everything I say,
you'd be me!" -Miles Davis

On Fri, 19 May 2000 10:16:17 -0400, "M. C. DiPietra" <mdipietra@earthlink.net> wrote:

in article 3924dbb7.82191985 @news1.tninet.se , Catarina Pamnell at catarina@pamnell.com escribe en 5/19/00 5:33 AM:

On Thu, 18 May 2000 15:16:14 -0400, "M. C. DiPietra" <mdipietra@earthlink.net> wrote:

in article 3924163c.31629225 @news1.tninet.se , Catarina Pamnell at catarina@pamnell.com escribe en 5/18/00 12:42 PM:

<snip for brevity>

But I don't see racism in itself as any obvious driving force for the CoS. l could be wrong, I can only talk from personal experience limited to Europe, and my interpretation of their materials.

I agree that it is not a driving force, but it continues as a catalyst for perpetuating racist ideas and mindset, and no one addresses it in the CoS at all;

Of course they don't — for all their grand claims to the contrary, they have no real interest in improving conditions in society — only to further the cause of the CoS.

the idea that black people register differently on an e-meter implies a difference that is not cultural {since Latin Americans are heavily recruited at this time — last night at Tampa org there was a'Presentacion Dianetica — Gratis' on the sign marquis.} but racial [what would Hubbard do with an Afrocuban?]

And the orgs are still selling a special "South African Rundown" to handle "a spiritual case problem peculiar to those indigenous to that country" (quote from "What is Scientology" 1998 edition)

What I do see as major driving forces are money and power (surprise!). Check out who has money and power in the societies where the CoS operates, and you'll see who they will try to grab hold of. Society not equal = CoS not equal. As for the guys without money who are recruited for staff, I'd even say that money is still the issue. If the CoS are targeting a public of white middle-to-upper class because they think that's where the money and power is, and these people will be more reluctant to buy from non-white sales staff — heck, they are not going to put any non-whites there.

This idea is completely racist; assuming money and power are the domain only of whites? Assuming white people wouldn't make a purchase from a nonwhite?

Once again, the CoS doesn't think in terms of eradicating injustices from society. They just try to cash in on how they see the existing situation.

Disturbing.

Yes, it is.

Notice though their recent attempts to attract a black market, such as campaigns with Isaac Hayes. Probably some have finally realized that "even" black people can be wealthy in the US today, so they will be trying more for that in the future. It doesn't change one iota the nastiness of the situation, since it's still only a matter of money to them.

If some FSM or reg suddenly becomes successful in getting a non-white group to hand over a lot of money, all hail to him/her. If a non-white still pulls in money to the org, keep him/her. Greed.

I would also guess that quite a bit of the recruitment of new members is through friends and family of those who are already members. If white scientologists only have white friends (and I'd say that a lot of white people in general stay in white circles) that's who they will recruit.

Well, part of it may also be that the structure of Scn, which is very white, may not be as appealing to those who are not.

Yes, I also thought about this.

By this I mean the linear-thought patternsgraphs and charts and grades, all written-culture worship of His Written Words and dominant culture ideas of individual advancement, paying for wisdom with money, some of Hubbard's 1950s leftovers about patriarchal and white superiority, even down to the military heirarchy, etc.

I'm not saying that all nonwhites would feel alienated by these and other aspects of Scn, but there are so many cultural biases within the Scn construct that it is identifiable as such, no matter how non-biased it wants to believe itself to be, and how diverse it tries to pass itself off.

Absolutely. It is firmly grounded in Hubbard's own early 20th century etnocentric  world view. I don't see how they will be able to ever transform Scn into something that can truly appeal to a multi-cultural society.

All those CoS claims about "teaching South African children to read" also follow that pattern, you know the benign white missionaries who in their infinite goodness and wisdom decend to have mercy on the poor little natives. They think it makes them look "churchie" (and that nobody would bother to check up on their claims).

Here in Scandinavia, anyone not north-western european (or from the US, Australia etc. but of north-western european ancestry) risks being discriminated against. Greeks, Italians etc. are "black heads". (Oh, not officially of course, but far too many people still have that attitude) I have seen it up close, was married to a Portuguese for ten years. Against that background, I did not find people in Scn in Sweden and Denmark to be more racist than the surrounding society, maybe even less. There were non-european "black heads" on staff in my org — just saw one (who was my auditor for a while) in a magazine, he's a top FSM in Sweden now. I don't know how they experienced the situation, can only say that I did not hear anyone talk bad about them. They were good scienos — they produced! When my ex-husband moved to Sweden, he was better treated in the org than in society at large.

Thanks, this was an interesting view on racism! So you can have European blacks and noneuro blacks?!

Oh yes. Since racism has precious little to do with the people being discriminated against, and everything to do with the mindset of the discriminator, anything is possible…

If you read some of our medevial law collections that are still preserved, you will find that at that time there would be different levels of punishment for crimes, for example murder, depending on what part of the country the victim originated from. Some Swedes were considered less valuable than others. And that thinking lived on for a long time — I have seen geography school books from early 1900s where people from various parts of the country were described as "by nature" lazy, happy, hard-working or whatever.

And not to forget the Same people ("Lapps"), who inhabited northern Scandinavia long before Germanic tribes invaded from the south. Until recent times, their kids were not even allowed to speak their own language at school, and they are still treated with some contempt by many Swedes.

Here in Florida, where there are large Greek and Italian populations, Latin people are mostly considered white and I'm sure those born here would be horrified to know they aren't elsewhere!

It could even be a worthwhile exercise for them :-)

For a while, I lived in a small town in northern Sweden. There, anyone who was from outside the area was considered suspect. Since I was from Stockholm (capital city of Sweden), I was a "foreigner" just the same as my neighbors from Lebanon, Morocco and Iran. Not that I suffered too badly, those were anyway nicer neighbors to hang out with than most of the locals. But if I had stayed longer in that town, it would certainly have been upsetting to always be treated as a second-rate person.

I also, being young and a woman, felt less discriminated against in the org than in society.

Anyway, scientologists don't need blacks or asians or jews or women as scape-goats to bolster their own imagined superiority. As their own ads claim, there are over 1 billion SPs in the world… That's plenty of people to hate. They have the extremely nasty elitist mindset in common with other hate groups. No wonder the CoS can appear similar to white supremacists.

yes!

A 'racist' group doesn't necessarily have to be driven by wild-eyed hate to be effective at perpetuating racist ideas; I agree with you that CoS may not have racism as a central theme, but organizations rarely do these days.

A few do, and that's how I understood the original question — if the CoS was one of your typical overt racist group.

Racism isn't always so overt.

I agree with you, and the covert racism (and other discriminatory ideas) is often worse, since it is harder to point out and deal with.

However, the atmosphere of distrust built on the creation and maintenance of an 'enemy' to sustain an organization, the way Scn does, is almost built to suit a hate group.

It certainly is. I'm also afraid that it could be turned in just about any direction, if the Scn leaders get some idea, or have some pet hate.

Let's put it this way, in my years downtown there I saw all of two black people in a SO uniform. This is not representative of the local populace, which is around 15% black.

That sounds possible to me. My point is that even if you'd have 15% black SO members, but the CoS still kept their elitist view of CoS vs. the rest of the world, then it would not be much progress. (If the percentage would change because of a true change in Scn ideology with increased acceptance and appreciation of varied ideas and cultures, then it would be a completely different matter.)

We recently had a case here in Sweden of some neo-nazi bank robbers and hardened criminals who murdered two police officers. One of the neo-nazis was black! Absurd situation, but it seems the neo-nazi elitism suited his need to hate, and his ruthlessness and military experience obviously got him accepted by the neo-nazi group. I can't say that I feel the slightest bit more sympathetic towards neo-nazism just because they added a black guy to their crowd.

In a way, the CoS label of SP is even more useful to a hate group than any physical attribute label (such as "black" or "yellow" or "female"). Since "being SP" is a quality that is not physically visible, the CoS leadership can label as SP anyone they feel like labeling, and they can reverse or re-reverse the label at whim.

Catarina

http://xenu.just.nu 

==================================
"Love the truth, forgive mistakes"
(Voltaire)
==================================

On Thu, 18 May 2000 19:42:36 GMT, mgormez@chello.nl (Michael 'Mike' Gormez -- www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths) wrote:

In article <3924163c.31629225 @news1.tninet.se >, catarina@pamnell.com (Catarina Pamnell) wrote:

Hubbard was born in the 1910s, and reached his forties in the 1950s. If you follow his writings, yes, they are racist about black and chinese people — but not much worse than many other writers of the same generation. I wouldn't sat  Scn is based on racial hate or envy as such, though (because it isn't).

I'd agree with Dave.

I'd disagree a bit. remember the Hubbard textbook debacle in LA? One of the reasons was that the LRH books depicted handicapped people as isolated from others, and coloured/blacks were under represented in a major way. So, the cult may not be overtly racist (would get them less money) it nevertheless is on a subtle level.

Sure they are. Isn't still most of western culture subtly or overtly racist? What is the popular image of a successful person? It's not exactly a black, disabled, lesbian woman, is it? Scn is preoccupied with "being successful" in a rather narrowminded way. They utilize people's dreams of "becoming successful" whatever those are.

It personaly made me puke to know how low they will go to influence children in a very sick and twisted manner.

They want people to believe that by joining Scn they will become rich, attractive, influential in society and gain superhuman powers. I doubt that whoever put that textbook together had spent even 2 seconds contemplating equal rights issues, unless forced to do so by authorities.

I still understand "a racist organization" to be one that is mainly driven by racial hate issues, and I don't think CoS is. They have their own hate issues. "Elitist hate organization", certainly.

Catarina

http://xenu.just.nu 

==================================
"Love the truth, forgive mistakes"
(Voltaire)
==================================

In article <3924fee3.91196585 @news1.tninet.se >, catarina@pamnell.com (Catarina Pamnell) wrote:

Remember the Hubbard textbook debacle in LA? One of the reasons was that the LRH books depicted handicapped people as isolated from others, and coloured/blacks were under represented in a major way. So, the cult may not be overtly racist (would get them less money) it nevertheless is on a subtle level.

Sure they are. Isn't still most of western culture subtly or overtly racist? What is the popular image of a successful person? It's not exactly a black, disabled, lesbian woman, is it? Scn is preoccupied with "being successful" in a rather narrowminded way. They utilize people's dreams of "becoming successful" whatever those are.

I beg your pardon. The aforementioned LRH books weren't meant for managers but small kids. Sure, the stereo-type of a successful person isn't one of an Afro-American handicapped lesbian with two heads, however in the case of Scn there's something else going on; why is the handicapped person depicted isolated? Sick LRH answer: they pulled it in.

Handicapped persons have only themselves to blame for their current situation. They are downstats  , not "honest producers" (ie. sub-human).

It personaly made me puke to know how low they will go to influence children in a very sick and twisted manner.

They want people to believe that by joining Scn they will become rich, attractive, influential in society and gain superhuman powers. I doubt that whoever put that textbook together had spent even 2 seconds contemplating equal rights issues, unless forced to do so by authorities.

Do you really believe that in the cult just "something happens" without rigid control? No, I don't believe that. They purposely painted a dark picture of the handicaped/coloured people. If not, they could have let the handicapped person out if it entirely.

I still understand "a racist organization" to be one that is mainly driven by racial hate issues, and I don't think CoS is. They have their own hate issues. "Elitist hate organization", certainly.

On this point we agree.

Mikey
--
The Church of Prozac is an Applied Medicated Religious Philosophy
http://members.ams.chello.nl/mgormez/misc/church_of_prozac.html

On Sat, 20 May 2000 22:15:23 GMT, mgormez@chello.nl (Michael 'Mike' Gormez -- www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths) wrote:

In article <3924fee3.91196585@news1.tninet.se >, catarina@pamnell.com (Catarina Pamnell) wrote:

Remember the Hubbard textbook debacle in LA? One of the reasons was that the LRH books depicted handicapped people as isolated from others, and coloured/blacks were under represented in a major way. So, the cult may not be overtly racist (would get them less money) it nevertheless is on a subtle level.

Sure they are. Isn't still most of western culture subtly or overtly racist? What is the popular image of a successful person? It's not exactly a black, disabled, lesbian woman, is it? Scn is preoccupied with "being successful" in a rather narrowminded way. They utilize people's dreams of "becoming successful" whatever those are.

I beg your pardon. The aforementioned LRH books weren't meant for managers but small kids.

You mean "thetans in small bodies"? Not much difference to a scientologist. And anyway, it's not kids who decide what school books are used, it's adults.

Sure, the stereo-type of a successful person isn't one of an Afro-American handicapped lesbian with two heads, however in the case of Scn there's something else going on; why is the handicapped person depicted isolated? Sick LRH answer: they pulled it in.

Handicapped persons have only themselves to blame for their current situation. They are downstats, not "honest producers" (ie. sub-human).

Unless they happen to have a fat bank account, then scientology "can help with their problem"... :-(

It personaly made me puke to know how low they will go to influence children in a very sick and twisted manner.

They want people to believe that by joining Scn they will become rich, attractive, influential in society and gain superhuman powers. I doubt that whoever put that textbook together had spent even 2 seconds contemplating equal rights issues, unless forced to do so by authorities.

Do you really believe that in the cult just "something happens" without rigid control? No, I don't believe that.

Yes, I do. I can't say of course what went on in this particular case. But although the CoS is a control-crazy structure, orgs can be extremely chaotic places. If the total control wish was fully executed, you'd see a CoS that was much, much more effective than what you have now. Org staff are under a great deal of pressure. They run on a very short time perspective, just week by week. When their boss comes and shouts for more production, they can't say: "Well, there's not much products coming out right now, but in 6 months time my project should be on its way." They are forced to toss things together quickly and without much thought just to have some "production" to show this week.

Most people who have to work under such stressful conditions make a lot of mistakes, since they don't have time to actually consider what are the consequences of their decisions. Then they are punished for their mistakes, or for imagined mistakes, which makes them even more nervous. There is also quite a bit of internal fighting going on between different CoS areas for resources, staff, etc. Add to that the fact that many scientologists (especially staff members) lose touch with the world outside. And that it's all based on the "sacred scriptures" of a crazy man.

I think the orgs spend the majority of their time and energy on trying to fix things that went wrong because of their own incompetent actions (do I need to mention the internet).

It still amazes me at times how well-ordered "normal" life can be in comparison.

They purposely painted a dark picture of the handicaped/coloured people. If not, they could have let the handicapped person out if it entirely.

But weren't they required to put them in, to conform to the standards of educational materials? I'm sure the original book illustrations didn't have any handicapped/non-whites at all. I strongly doubt that anyone within the org even thought about putting any "downstats" in the book. Then they were told that they had to add them in order to get the book accepted, so they did. Since they are not used to seeing handicapped kids play in the yard with their own kids (if they have any) at school, they could not envision the scene with much empathy.

All I'm saying is that it didn't have to be a conscious decision really. It would still be based on the scientology ideology that these people live in, so at the bottom line we probably agree...

Catarina

http://xenu.just.nu 

==================================
"Love the truth, forgive mistakes"
(Voltaire)
==================================

In article <3927c1c9.66294541@news1.tninet.se>, catarina@pamnell.com (Catarina Pamnell) wrote:

Sure they are. Isn't still most of western culture subtly or overtly racist? What is the popular image of a successful person? It's not exactly a black, disabled, lesbian woman, is it? Scn is preoccupied with "being successful" in a rather narrowminded way. They utilize people's dreams of "becoming successful" whatever those are.

I beg your pardon. The aforementioned LRH books weren't meant for managers but small kids.

You mean "thetans in small bodies"? Not much difference to a scientologist. And anyway, it's not kids who decide what school books are used, it's adults.

I don't understand your sentence. I am saying is that Scientology publishes textbooks for small children which covertly feed Hubbards sickening views on coloured/disabled persons and at the same time are lying about them being non-"religious".

Sure, the stereo-type of a successful person isn't one of an Afro-American handicapped lesbian with two heads, however in the case of Scn there's something else going on; why is the handicapped person depicted isolated? Sick LRH answer: they pulled it in.

Handicapped persons have only themselves to blame for their current situation. They are downstats, not "honest producers" (ie. sub-human).

Unless they happen to have a fat bank account, then scientology "can help with their problem"… :-(

Yep, look at Wayne Whitney who was sold "a cure" by his scientologists sister! http://home.icon.fi/~marina/1stpersn/wwhit01.htm#000

It personaly made me puke to know how low they will go to influence children in a very sick and twisted manner.

They want people to believe that by joining Scn they will become rich, attractive, influential in society and gain superhuman powers. I doubt that whoever put that textbook together had spent even 2 seconds contemplating equal rights issues, unless forced to do so by authorities.

Do you really believe that in the cult just "something happens" without rigid control? No, I don't believe that.

Yes, I do. I can't say of course what went on in this particular case.

[snip]

I think the orgs spend the majority of their time and energy on trying to fix things that went wrong because of their own incompetent actions (do I need to mention the internet).

It still amazes me at times how well-ordered "normal" life can be in comparison.

This isn't a "one Org matter", at least 3 Scn corps. were involved. (CST/ABLE/Applied Scholastics and Xenu knows how many more…)

How ever chaotic it maybe in an org, I simply refuse to accept that such a high profile/priority OSA project to get Hubbard into schools, would have been done by a unsupervised lone person behind a desk on the 5th floor in a dark room minding his own business muttering about body-thetans in the sky.

They purposely painted a dark picture of the handicaped/coloured people. If not, they could have let the handicapped person out if it entirely.

But weren't they required to put them in, to conform to the standards of educational materials? I'm sure the original book illustrations didn't have any handicapped/non-whites at all.

Can't remember/don't want to dig in my archive — and Deja.com is not useable on the moment. Luckely some of it is webbed: http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/191097.html#20 

"While some in the education community have raised concerns about the religious group's bid for entree into public schools, approval of the study skills materials has been stymied twice by a wholly separate issue — their representation of groups such as people with disabilities and people of color. 'The majority of learning does come from textbooks, so we want to be able to help students identify with the characters they're seeing,' said Rovina Salinas, an educator who examined the books for the state agency. 'What we (initially) found in all five texts is that they really lacked the representation … we require in California.'

…

"After an initial review, Bridge Publishing modified some of the books' sketches, but disabled people still aren't properly represented, said Salinas, who works for the Contra Costa County Office of Education and chairs the county's Legal Compliance Review Panel. Disabled children are shown alone instead of mixing with others. Canes, more representative of the aging process than of disabilities, are also depicted, she said.

…

"'Scientology practitioners — may utilize these textbooks as a vehicle for inculcating their students into at least the terminology of Scientology and, perhaps, more,' said Doug Merill, an attorney and board member of the Southern California ACLU. 'When a religion itself tells me that its scripture is everything that L. Ron Hubbard has written, then two plus two to me equals four,' he said. 'It appears that the textbooks are Scientology scripture as defined by Scientologists.'"

I like that guy!

See also
http://207.154.15.123/cos/laweekly.html  http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/140698.html#3 

I strongly doubt that anyone within the org even thought about putting any "downstats" in the book. Then they were told that they had to add them in order to get the book accepted, so they did. Since they are not used to seeing handicapped kids play in the yard with their own kids (if they have any) at school, they could not envision the scene with much empathy.

All I'm saying is that it didn't have to be a conscious decision really. It would still be based on the scientology ideology that these people live in, so at the bottom line we probably agree...

Probably yes.

Best
- Mikey
"I regret they appointed us their executioners.
There are so many other pleasant things to do."
– L. Ron Hubbard in an LRH OODs item of 12 November 1968.
Reissued as OSA Network Order #7 on 10 December 1987.
http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths/

On Sun, 21 May 2000 16:24:17 GMT, mgormez@chello.nl (Michael 'Mike' Gormez -- www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/deaths) wrote:

In article <3927c1c9.66294541@news1.tninet.se>, catarina@pamnell.com (Catarina Pamnell) wrote:

Sure they are. Isn't still most of western culture subtly or overtly racist? What is the popular image of a successful person? It's not exactly a black, disabled, lesbian woman, is it? Scn is preoccupied with "being successful" in a rather narrowminded way. They utilize people's dreams of "becoming successful" whatever those are.

I beg your pardon. The aforementioned LRH books weren't meant for managers but small kids.

You mean "thetans in small bodies"? Not much difference to a scientologist. And anyway, it's not kids who decide what school books are used, it's adults.

I don't understand your sentence.

Sorry — another attempt. What I mean is that Scn is not first and foremost interested in getting some message out to kids, but to get books that say "L. Ron Hubbard" on the cover sold and spread around. And so they must try to appeal to adults, to what they think people think their kids should be reading.

Fortunately, regardless of what the cult thinks, there are a lot of people who don't want such a narrow view for their kids.

I am saying is that Scientology publishes textbooks for small children which covertly feed Hubbards sickening views on coloured/disabled persons and at the same time are lying about them being non-"religious".

I see what you mean, and there is truth in it.

It just doesn't fully explain the sitution to me...

Handicapped persons have only themselves to blame for their current situation. They are downstats, not "honest producers" (ie. sub-human).

Unless they happen to have a fat bank account, then scientology "can help with their problem"— :-(

Yep, look at Wayne Whitney who was sold "a cure" by his scientologists sister! http://home.icon.fi/~marina/1stpersn/wwhit01.htm#000

Raul Lopez was told Scn would cure his brain injuires, while he was scammed out of around $1 M: http://www.parishioner.org/lopez.html

"By the end of the second week following his initial interview with the Scientology agent, Plaintiff had already spent or pledged approximately $30,000 for Scientology courses, materials and/or auditing services that Plaintiff had been told would bring him back to his pre-accident condition, curing his permanent injuries."

This isn't a "one Org matter", at least 3 Scn corps. were involved. (CST/ABLE/Applied Scholastics and Xenu knows how many more..)

Bridge Publications, at least.

How ever chaotic it maybe in an org, I simply refuse to accept that such a high profile/priority OSA project to get Hubbard into schools, would have been done by a unsupervised lone person behind a desk on the 5th floor in a dark room minding his own business muttering about body-thetans in the sky.

Who knows ;-)

You are right in that this would be an important project, and I'm sorry if it sounds as if I'm trivializing the matter. I just find it hard sometimes to take the view of Scn as "everything they do is maliciously planned" as it doesn't correlate with my experiences, or most of what I heard from people who have been in the SO.

They purposely painted a dark picture of the handicaped/coloured people. If not, they could have let the handicapped person out if it entirely.

But weren't they required to put them in, to conform to the standards of educational materials? I'm sure the original book illustrations didn't have any handicapped/non-whites at all.

I have to revise this statement somewhat. In my piles of stuff, I located a copy of "Learning How To Learn", which is an Applied Scholastics text book aimed at 8 to 12 year olds. "Based on the works of L. Ron Hubbard". Published 1992 by Bridge Pubs.

While most of the kids shown in this book (black-and-white cartoon drawings) are clearly white, there are a (probably) Afro-american boy, and one (probably) Afro-american girl and her mother. They are shown in similar situations as the white kids, no particular difference that I can see other than the fact that there are many more white kids in the book. There is no illustration of black and white kids together, (but OTOH most of the illustrations only show a single kid). There are no handicapped persons.

The book is really full of sexual stereotypes, BTW. The main character boy fixes a bike and builds a dog house. Girls learns to sew a dress and bake a cake. Boys swim or bike or play football, while girls stand around or sweep the floor…

Among the adults shown there's a cowboy, and a general who is making a clay model of the battlefield — are we talking shades of Hubbard here!

Can't remember/don't want to dig in my archive — and Deja.com is not useable on the moment. Luckely some of it is webbed: http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/191097.html#20 

Thanks, this seems pretty much what I expected — they were told to add some disabled so they did, but obviously not very successfully.

What made me wonder about whether the Scn main purpose here was to influence kids with a negative view of handicapped people is

• Why didn't they paint those in from the beginning? If they actively wished to show people with physical problems as less valuable, they could have put those illustrations in on their own initiative.

• If Scn felt strongly that disabled should not at all be present in their books, then why did they change the illustrations on request? And say they were prepared to make even more changes, when they still got criticised.

But OTOH it is suspect that they never did go through with those changes, and it's possible that you're right...

http://www.religio.de/publik/arsreview/140698.html#3 

On the whole, I don't feel the Scn goal is to get their message out. There are exceptions when they put up anonymous groups to work on specific issues that would serve their purposes, such as anti-income tax groups. But most of the time they are not trying to spread their message as such, they are trying to spread the name of Scientology and Hubbard — especially the latter. Hubbard was a very vain man, a sucker for acknowledgement.

If all Scn really wanted was to spread Hubbard's actual ideas of "study tech" (or even anti-handicapped people) in schools, they could circulate those ideas without any mention whatsoever of Hubbard, without getting license fees or royalties paid to the Scn empire, without boasting about the fact in Scn magazines.

They (or individual scientologists) do sometimes make attempts to start groups, schools etc. without mentioning Hubbard or Scn, but somehow it seems they just can't keep it up for too long — sooner or later they just have to boast about it in "Impact" or "International Scientology News" or something like that.

There's a chapter in the latest edition of "What is Scientology?" which I think is typical of this attitude, "L. Ron Hubbard: How his work has influenced the world" There they talk about ideas such as natural child birth, past lives, out-of-body experiences and improving people's IQ, and try to claim that the only reason such things are discussed today is because of what Hubbard wrote in the 1950s. It is far from enough from a Scn point of view if natural child birth is a commonly spread idea today. What they really want is for Hubbard and noone else to get the credit. It's the credit that is important, not how the babies are doing.

"'Scientology practitioners … may utilize these textbooks as a vehicle for inculcating their students into at least the terminology of Scientology and, perhaps, more,' said Doug Merill, an attorney and board member of the Southern California ACLU. 'When a religion itself tells me that its scripture is everything that L. Ron Hubbard has written, then two plus two to me equals four,' he said. 'It appears that the textbooks are Scientology scripture as defined by Scientologists.'"

I like that guy!

Excellent quote that!

Catarina

http://xenu.just.nu 

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